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	<title>Comments on: When Outsourcing Goes Wrong</title>
	<atom:link href="http://aureliustjin.com/when-outsourcing-goes-wrong/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://aureliustjin.com/when-outsourcing-goes-wrong</link>
	<description>Internet Marketing Blog by Aurelius Tjin sharing tips on traffic, SEO, affiliate marketing, self-improvement and website design...</description>
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		<title>By: thriftgirl62</title>
		<link>http://aureliustjin.com/when-outsourcing-goes-wrong/comment-page-1#comment-52200</link>
		<dc:creator>thriftgirl62</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 14:36:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aureliustjin.com/?p=55#comment-52200</guid>
		<description>I am surprised nobody pointed out the obvious problem.  The project was doomed before it began - never, ever, ever, ever, hire any so-called &quot;friend&quot; or relatives. 

 In a perfect world the first thing you do when going into business is get a divorce.  The settlement would make sure all family stragglers go with the other party.  Then you fire the rest of your family and all your friends!  

Now you&#039;ve got a good start and more time to think straight,  You might even finally have the presence of mind to be who you already are!  Logical awesome enablement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am surprised nobody pointed out the obvious problem.  The project was doomed before it began &#8211; never, ever, ever, ever, hire any so-called &#8220;friend&#8221; or relatives. </p>
<p> In a perfect world the first thing you do when going into business is get a divorce.  The settlement would make sure all family stragglers go with the other party.  Then you fire the rest of your family and all your friends!  </p>
<p>Now you&#8217;ve got a good start and more time to think straight,  You might even finally have the presence of mind to be who you already are!  Logical awesome enablement.</p>
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		<title>By: codygman</title>
		<link>http://aureliustjin.com/when-outsourcing-goes-wrong/comment-page-1#comment-46150</link>
		<dc:creator>codygman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 02:12:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aureliustjin.com/?p=55#comment-46150</guid>
		<description>Hey aurelis.. 

what languages are you looking for?

What type of programmer I mean.. I might be able to help.
I was a marketer before a programmer, so I will understand things that other programmers wouldn&#039;t.

Sincerely,

Cody Goodman</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey aurelis.. </p>
<p>what languages are you looking for?</p>
<p>What type of programmer I mean.. I might be able to help.<br />
I was a marketer before a programmer, so I will understand things that other programmers wouldn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>Sincerely,</p>
<p>Cody Goodman</p>
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		<title>By: Julia</title>
		<link>http://aureliustjin.com/when-outsourcing-goes-wrong/comment-page-1#comment-45287</link>
		<dc:creator>Julia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Apr 2009 18:02:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aureliustjin.com/?p=55#comment-45287</guid>
		<description>Sorry to hear that many of you had bad experiences with outsourcing. It gives all of the good freelancers a bad name (I&#039;m not a programmer, but a virtual assistant).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry to hear that many of you had bad experiences with outsourcing. It gives all of the good freelancers a bad name (I&#8217;m not a programmer, but a virtual assistant).</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Udegbunam Chukwudi</title>
		<link>http://aureliustjin.com/when-outsourcing-goes-wrong/comment-page-1#comment-37784</link>
		<dc:creator>Udegbunam Chukwudi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Mar 2009 09:00:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aureliustjin.com/?p=55#comment-37784</guid>
		<description>I simply don&#039;t outsource because I don&#039;t want to spend too much creating a business where I might see returns or not see a dime at all. I do all my stuff myself. Graphics etc. Fine they don&#039;t look as glossy and fabulous as those done by the pros BUT they definitely work for me and I get to learn how to do stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I simply don&#8217;t outsource because I don&#8217;t want to spend too much creating a business where I might see returns or not see a dime at all. I do all my stuff myself. Graphics etc. Fine they don&#8217;t look as glossy and fabulous as those done by the pros BUT they definitely work for me and I get to learn how to do stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: Luv</title>
		<link>http://aureliustjin.com/when-outsourcing-goes-wrong/comment-page-1#comment-35872</link>
		<dc:creator>Luv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 17:41:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aureliustjin.com/?p=55#comment-35872</guid>
		<description>It seems that you&#039;re new to the outsourcing thing!

Man, that&#039;s quite common, especially with coders from South Asia (India and Pakistan). These people have a different time concept then we have in the West. Time means nothing for them. They say they&#039;ll complete the work in 2 months, but if they deliver with a 20 months delay there&#039;s no problem for them, because the work is done. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems that you&#8217;re new to the outsourcing thing!</p>
<p>Man, that&#8217;s quite common, especially with coders from South Asia (India and Pakistan). These people have a different time concept then we have in the West. Time means nothing for them. They say they&#8217;ll complete the work in 2 months, but if they deliver with a 20 months delay there&#8217;s no problem for them, because the work is done. <img src='http://aureliustjin.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://aureliustjin.com/when-outsourcing-goes-wrong/comment-page-1#comment-31703</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 00:27:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aureliustjin.com/?p=55#comment-31703</guid>
		<description>Hi Aurelius,

I hired a programmer from an unnamed site last year and he did a very good job. However, just before the software was completed, he disappeared! I lost all contact with him. He didn&#039;t yet give me the source code, so the whole project was worthless. I had to start over. A lot of the service sites are great, but the real goal there is to find a programmer that has lots of positive reviews (30+). Once you finish a successful project with him/her, try a second. If that works, you&#039;re well on your way to having a long term programmer you can trust.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Aurelius,</p>
<p>I hired a programmer from an unnamed site last year and he did a very good job. However, just before the software was completed, he disappeared! I lost all contact with him. He didn&#8217;t yet give me the source code, so the whole project was worthless. I had to start over. A lot of the service sites are great, but the real goal there is to find a programmer that has lots of positive reviews (30+). Once you finish a successful project with him/her, try a second. If that works, you&#8217;re well on your way to having a long term programmer you can trust.</p>
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		<title>By: Aurelius Tjin</title>
		<link>http://aureliustjin.com/when-outsourcing-goes-wrong/comment-page-1#comment-16774</link>
		<dc:creator>Aurelius Tjin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 01:26:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aureliustjin.com/?p=55#comment-16774</guid>
		<description>@ Claude - Ouch! Sorry to hear that.

@ Deep - Yes, I agree with you.

@ James - Thanks for that insightful and helpful tips. Yes, I can tell you&#039;d studied programming from the words you used, like &quot;UML&quot;. I failed miserably in programming back in college.

@ tkada - Glad this post helped you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Claude &#8211; Ouch! Sorry to hear that.</p>
<p>@ Deep &#8211; Yes, I agree with you.</p>
<p>@ James &#8211; Thanks for that insightful and helpful tips. Yes, I can tell you&#8217;d studied programming from the words you used, like &#8220;UML&#8221;. I failed miserably in programming back in college.</p>
<p>@ tkada &#8211; Glad this post helped you.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: tkada.com</title>
		<link>http://aureliustjin.com/when-outsourcing-goes-wrong/comment-page-1#comment-16758</link>
		<dc:creator>tkada.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 14:58:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aureliustjin.com/?p=55#comment-16758</guid>
		<description>I do feel for the worse time of yours in that particular program, very sorry.
And u had mentioned the defects and pointed out the reason why, so you have analyzed the situation would experienced this situation.
So you never get into this type of problem further as you experienced it.., 
Some avoid this type of problem only after they experience as such and some avoid by hearing from others.., 
By your post I can read the situation and this really help me in alerting to not engage in such a kind of problem, it initiate me to find an alternate.
thank for your post sorry alert.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do feel for the worse time of yours in that particular program, very sorry.<br />
And u had mentioned the defects and pointed out the reason why, so you have analyzed the situation would experienced this situation.<br />
So you never get into this type of problem further as you experienced it..,<br />
Some avoid this type of problem only after they experience as such and some avoid by hearing from others..,<br />
By your post I can read the situation and this really help me in alerting to not engage in such a kind of problem, it initiate me to find an alternate.<br />
thank for your post sorry alert.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: James Hinds</title>
		<link>http://aureliustjin.com/when-outsourcing-goes-wrong/comment-page-1#comment-10565</link>
		<dc:creator>James Hinds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 23:50:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aureliustjin.com/?p=55#comment-10565</guid>
		<description>I have been a programmer since 1966.  Done many projects both on teams and independently.  My last large project taught me some important things about what a customer needs as far as concrete, verifiable milestones.  You see this project was to control a very complicated astronomical instrument:  The software was ballparked at $500K.

This was a project with NASA reporting and contract standards:  much more stringent than any commercial project.

Let&#039;s boil it down:
1) design specs.  That the customer and the programmer understand.  It is best if you learn enough of a standard language (UML) to keep the programmer honest.  It&#039;s not too hard, and you don&#039;t have to learn too much of it -- just make sure the programmer does not put anything in there that you can&#039;t understand.

2) The UML will break the project into large chunks.  Get an estimate for each chunk and when each will be delivered and what chunks need to be done first.

3) agree on a pay per chunk scheme.  Note that some parts may need be done simultaneously.

4) try to get &#039;stub-enabled&#039; code: where the hooks for later work is clearly &#039;stubbed-out&#039; and with some simulated (test driven) code to mimic the code to be written in the future.

There is more, but it should be a start.  It will give you very much leverage and visibility over your programming staff.

One more thing: especially with outsourcing.  There is often a desire to speed up the process by adding more programmers.  Unless you have your project broken up into these reasonably independent chunks, it won&#039;t work.  It&#039;s like trying to have a baby in 1 month by using 9 women!  one chunk per programmer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been a programmer since 1966.  Done many projects both on teams and independently.  My last large project taught me some important things about what a customer needs as far as concrete, verifiable milestones.  You see this project was to control a very complicated astronomical instrument:  The software was ballparked at $500K.</p>
<p>This was a project with NASA reporting and contract standards:  much more stringent than any commercial project.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s boil it down:<br />
1) design specs.  That the customer and the programmer understand.  It is best if you learn enough of a standard language (UML) to keep the programmer honest.  It&#8217;s not too hard, and you don&#8217;t have to learn too much of it &#8212; just make sure the programmer does not put anything in there that you can&#8217;t understand.</p>
<p>2) The UML will break the project into large chunks.  Get an estimate for each chunk and when each will be delivered and what chunks need to be done first.</p>
<p>3) agree on a pay per chunk scheme.  Note that some parts may need be done simultaneously.</p>
<p>4) try to get &#8216;stub-enabled&#8217; code: where the hooks for later work is clearly &#8216;stubbed-out&#8217; and with some simulated (test driven) code to mimic the code to be written in the future.</p>
<p>There is more, but it should be a start.  It will give you very much leverage and visibility over your programming staff.</p>
<p>One more thing: especially with outsourcing.  There is often a desire to speed up the process by adding more programmers.  Unless you have your project broken up into these reasonably independent chunks, it won&#8217;t work.  It&#8217;s like trying to have a baby in 1 month by using 9 women!  one chunk per programmer.</p>
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		<title>By: ebay auction tool</title>
		<link>http://aureliustjin.com/when-outsourcing-goes-wrong/comment-page-1#comment-7711</link>
		<dc:creator>ebay auction tool</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:34:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aureliustjin.com/?p=55#comment-7711</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the heads up in this article. I put way too much trust in my employees and helpers. Sometimes they try to get away with little things like I will forget. I always though that outsourcing would be a good think in this prospect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the heads up in this article. I put way too much trust in my employees and helpers. Sometimes they try to get away with little things like I will forget. I always though that outsourcing would be a good think in this prospect.</p>
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